A new episode of the Civil Society Podcast has been published today, featuring an interview with James Blake, chief executive of the Youth Hostels Association (YHA).
In this episode, Blake discusses the impact of Covid-19 on the charity, the broader impact of government cuts on the sector and the short and long term aims of YHA going forward.
You can listen to the interview now below or on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music and Pocket Casts.
AI generated transcript
Jasper King:
Hello. Today we are joined here by James Blake, who is the CEO of the Youth Hostels Association for our listeners who don't know. So I thought I'd start off by talking to James a little bit about your background before you entered the charity sector, because I know you were a geographer and worked for a bit in national and local government as well. So if you're happy to kick off with that.
James Blake:
Yeah, thanks, Jasper. Really good to be here. Thanks for inviting me. So you're right. I mean, I started life as a geographer. I guess I've always had an interest in people and place and the connections between them, and that's probably been a theme, kind of throughout my career. And I was working on environmental policy in the days of local agenda 21 for any listeners who remember that, and in it we were trying to influence government policy, and not having a huge amount of success. So I thought, well, I joined the government so, so that was in the early, early days of the Blair government. Lots of lots going on, feels like a long time ago now. And so I joined the then Department of the Environment, which was John Prescott super department at the time. And of course, as happens in the civil service, you get put into something nothing to do with what you're working on. So I started working water regulation, but quite quickly, I moved into the area around Neighbourhood Renewal, social regeneration, social inclusion, that area where there was a lot of work going on, really interesting. And became part of the Neighbourhood Renewal unit and also the social exclusion unit at that time, before then going on more into local government policy. So I did that for about 10 years, really interesting years, and then had a young family and was looking to do something a little bit more local, and the opportunity came up to move out into local government, initially on secondment as what was then called the chief kind of policy and partnerships officer of the council near where I live, in St Albans. And and really enjoyed that get kind of almost doing the things that I'm doing, the policy on when I was in government, and having the opportunity to kind of see the impact what you were doing a bit closer to home. So I did various jobs there, culminating in being chief exec there at the Council for about five years. And then in 2017 the opportunity came up in YHA. So I kind of jumped over to to YHA, and I've been there ever since. And I guess if you're if your listeners are wondering, well, that sounds like quite a, quite a kind of odd move in some ways, I guess in two things, really. One was, I've always been kind of really interested in, involved in the charity sector. I've actually been a young trustee of YHA a long time ago, and I've been a lifelong kind of enthusiast for the outdoors, for walking and hiking mountains and indeed hostling So. So I had kind of a previous knowledge of the organisation. But I guess if there was one thing that was common to working into the local, local government and in YHA, in both were organisations that relied on commercial income, if you like, to deliver public benefit in different ways. In the council was in an era of austerity, no government grant by that point. So again, we were having to think of creative ways to deliver both income and impact, and the same in YHA. I mean, we've always been a trading charity, a social enterprise, as we call it now, ever since we were founded, and again, in difficult times. You know, it's that, how do you generate that income, but also, at the same time, deliver your charitable purpose? I've always been found that fascinating, that kind of dynamic between the two. So, so, so that's me.
JK:
Sounds like, yeah, you've had a really interesting career, very varied career, before you entered the charity sector. And I know you mentioned there that you joined YHA as chief exec in July 2017. I know you touched on it a little bit, but did you have any connection to youth services or access to the countryside before you joined the charity?
JB:
Yeah. I mean, I, you know, obviously, in terms of involvement in hostling, I guess, you know, my own experience was perhaps a microcosm of of the people that we were trying to help. Mean, I, you know, I mean, I didn't come from a, you know, a very very disadvantaged background, but I did have some kind of difficulties at school. It wasn't the kind of happiest time of my life. Got bit bullying and so on. And actually, you know, for me, I went hostling, age 16, in the Lake District. My parents kind of let me go because, you know, hostels were a safe and affordable place for young people to go and and it opened my eyes to a world that I had just no knowledge of at all, you know. So went up to the Lake District. I'd heard about it, I read about it, but never been there. Stayed in hostels, and I met kind of a whole huge new range of people in the in the hostel, in the social spaces in the hostel, people very different to the people I was encountering at school, and people are much more like minded. And you know, I had a wonderful week climbing mountains and meeting people, and it just kind of opened my eyes to a completely different, different world. And I kind of really kicked on from there. And you know, I finished school and I went off to university. I ran a hill walking club at university. We went on trips to youth hostels. I saw the benefits again there to people who were, you know, to people's sort of mental health, kind of escaping from the, you know, quite pressured environment that can sometimes be and so I suppose I've always had that kind of personal connection, really, with the power of getting outside, getting into the mountains, getting into nature, and the impact that can have on your own kind of mental well being, you know, in day to day life.
JK:
Yeah, no, that's good to touch upon. And I know you’ve worked as a CEO at the charity now, I guess, almost coming up to a decade, in a way. What do you think has changed the most in YHA since then, and more broadly, in the charity sector? Do you think, from your perspective?
JB:
It's really good question. I mean, I think, I think from YHA. I mean, obviously, you know, the big thing that happened was Covid. I mean, there's no getting away from it. And you know, that's had a seismic impact on on us, as it has for many charities. And I suppose it's not just the the the immediate impact and the crisis management of having to shut down, and, you know, the immediate impact on your finances. I think it's had a really long, lasting impact, well, on us, and I think more widely, because it's weakened, it's weakened us, you know, it's weakened our balance sheets. It's weakened our reserves. You know, the actions we had to take at that time have had longer lasting effects. I mean, I think for us, it could be 10 to 20 years before we can get back to a position, you know, where we where we were before. And I perhaps touched a bit more on that later. But I mean, it's, you know, I think it's people under arrest. People think, well, you're back open, you know, what's the problem? And actually, you're back open, but you've, you can't, kind of, you know, make up for what's come come before. So I think that's obviously the biggest impact. I mean, I suppose perhaps it's worth saying. Also, I think just during this whole period, Brexit, Brexit Covid, decide it's been Brexit to Covid aside. I mean, I think it's been a time of just greater, you know, political, economic instability and uncertainty, both in the UK and more widely. You know, whichever part of the sector you're in, you know, you've, you're going to be affected by that in some way. So I think the the ability to sort of plan and long term and to set a course to deliver your charitable object and hold that has been more and more difficult through that period.
JK:
Yeah, I know you touched on it there that Covid was and has been a big turning point for you as a charity. I guess that relies on this social enterprise model as well. So I guess, yeah, if you could talk a little bit more about what impact that did have on your charity from a financial perspective, how that's kind of guiding you going forward as well to the future?
JB:
Yeah, it was, it was huge for us. You know, I do remember, actually, I think doing a presentation at a conference, it might have been NCVO or Kevo, perhaps just before Covid, and perhaps speaking of it smugly at a fundraising event about how actually it was great being a social enterprise, because so much of your income was largely guaranteed and you didn't have the scramble every year to raise all the money you needed. Well, of course, if you're a charity relying on trading income and you can't trade, then you're in real difficulty. So yeah, we lost 80% of our income in the first year, you know. So that's 40 million out of a turnover 50 million, about 50% the year after, about 20% the year after that, and we're still not back, actually, to the income levels that we were before Covid For various reasons, but part of the reason being, we had to sell assets in that period to survive. And yeah, I guess we were sort of we were a charity rooted in the hospitality sector, reliant on people sharing space. So none of those things were great. Right during the Covid period. So, so that's been, that's been huge. I mean, the advantage we did have, and the reason we're still here, really, is we did have assets, you know. So we could, you know, we could repurpose those assets as best we could in Covid, you know, we, we, you know, for people, you know, housing, for key workers, for all sorts of different things, you know, as we did that and but, yeah, but we took out extra debt that we secured against the assets that we had, as well as selling some of those assets. And of course, that got us through Covid. But I guess, to my earlier point, what that's meant is that we we then when interest rates then rose very sharply, shortly after Covid, we went from paying, I think, about 1 million pounds a year of interest to 4 million pounds a year of interest. So that's an example, I suppose, of the sort of legacy that Covid left for us and all of our cash reserves that had gone and and then other factors too sort of came along. I mean, the inflation and the energy crisis. You know, we're, we're a charity that, you know, operates out of amazing, lovely, but quite old buildings that probably aren't the best for, you know, energy efficiency. You know, a mediaeval Castle, for example, wouldn't be not an easy one to to run very energy efficiently. So, so so that was a big hit for us as well. I think our energy bills in 2023 went from, you know, 1 million to 5 million. So suddenly, basically, on top of Covid, you get a structural deficit in your finances emerging so that, you know, almost was worse than Covid, in fact, because that put the long term kind of viability of YHA at risk and and, you know, so we've had a kind of big recovery plan going on on that, and then the third wave has now hit, kind of this last year. And I know you'll have covered this quite a bit over the last year, but, you know, I guess we had, we did have some hope that the, you know, a new government bring a sort of a new approach that might be kind of stronger for for Charity Finance, but actually it's been worse. If, I mean, the the obviously the national insurance issue was big for us, because we had a lot of people work for IHA part time, so a lot of people came into that threshold who weren't in it before. We've obviously got a number of people who work on the living wage, and that's been going up exponentially, which is a good thing, you know, but it's caused a huge kind of pressure on our cost base. But then we also had government funding programmes, so we were somebody, a partner, who delivered the National Citizen Service programme for about 12 years that went very suddenly last at the end of last year without really anything put in its place. And then we were running a generation green programme, which we're very proud of, actually. But again, that one hasn't continued. And then the final thing, and all these things are kind of, you know, disconnected all from different bits of government, but the actual collective impact on us as a charity has been huge. So is the introduction of a visa the visa waiver scheme this year. So I mean that one's sort of slightly under the radar, really, but now anyone coming into the UK has to pay 16 pounds for a visa waiver. We have quite a lot of young people from Northern Europe come to us. So you might have some, you know, kids from a inner city school in Berlin. First of all, after Brexit, they've had to buy passports for all of the kids, so that's a challenge, and now it's an extra 16 pounds for those those children, to get a weak visa waiver. And not surprisingly, a lot of people are choosing to go elsewhere, you know, to Dublin or Paris or Rome or wherever it might be. So I mean, that's affecting the whole tourism sector, but it's, again, another impact. So you you just add all that together, I think it's something like a 4 million hit on our budget in year. This year, about 7% which, when you're trying to still recover from all the other things, is pretty, pretty challenging, if I'm honest. So you know, and I know other charities will have had that in different ways and but, yeah, the financial situation for the sector does look pretty difficult. You only have to look at the new, you know, each week in, week out, on your own, you know, publication and others, both national, national charities having to close, you know, bits of their estate of various kinds or large scale restructures and redundancies and smaller charities, sadly, some of them having to close. So it is a it is a challenging time.
JK:
Yeah, you're right to touch on that. It's extremely challenging time for a lot of charities nationwide, particularly from a financial perspective. And it's like you say, it's impacting both large and small charities, and it was interesting that you touched upon the rise to national employers contributions and the visa scheme as well. We'll touch a bit upon more of that a bit later on. And obviously we find ourselves now in a cost of living crisis as well, with living standards not really improving. The. This decade, really, at all. Have you felt the economic impacts of that as a charity? Would you say?
JB:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, obviously, we're an organisation where, you know, the people who come to us and hopefully benefit from from what we do, are people without a huge amount of money. It's about, you know, affordable access to just the breaks for people who might not otherwise get a break. You know, so break, you know. So, yeah, and I guess the challenge there is with the cost base going up really, really steeply. You know, whatever we might do to become more efficient and try and control our costs, we can't, you know, charge people the same level as the costs have been going up by. I mean, well, if we do, then people wouldn't come. And that's true both of you know individuals coming to us or families coming to us, but also schools coming to us. I mean, about half the people that come to us are from schools and groups, you know. And I think I saw a figure the other day that school budgets have only increased by about naught point 7% over the last five years. Well, our cost base has increased by 40% so, you know, the so that, in itself, is causing challenges, both for the school themselves in terms of putting on trips and many schools now can't afford to do it, but also for parents of children wanting to go on those trips. We've introduced a bursary scheme called No Child Left Behind, which is about really trying to help those people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get on a school trip. But sadly, what we are seeing is the numbers of kids being able to come on the trips, and the length of those trips getting smaller. You know, we you know, everyone remembers their first school trip. It's an amazing kind of experience. And you know, it's very sad, I think if people can't have that experience.
JK:
Yeah, and I guess, from your perspective as a charity who's helping those most disadvantaged young people, that's a really sad reality that you yeah, you must find yourselves in. And I know that in 2023 as a charity, you launched a recovery plan as well. Would you say, from your perspective, has that plan worked? Considering the government's announcement of increases to employers National Insurance contributions as well as the rise to national living wage as well?
JB:
I mean, I think, I think if we've been sitting here this time last year, I'd have said yes. I mean, we're in the, you know, it was a three. I mean, just in terms of what that recovery plan was, it was basically a kind of immediate response, I guess, to that kind of the criteria the first those crises we've been talking about, and you know, what we did was said, Look, sadly, we're going to have to review a third of our estate, which we don't think we can afford to run ourselves, but really focus on the other part of our state that we think we can make, you know, more efficient with higher occupancy, more people coming. You know, we can cut our own central cost by 20% and and, I suppose, interestingly also, we can look, for, you know, innovative waves to keep, you know, keep hostels open. You know, for example, particularly looking at local partners to come in and run hostels for us. You know, some people might call it a franchise model, I suppose. But you know, basically, people basically people, you know, buying our sites and running them on a kind of bed and breakfast model, which is a sort of, you know, which is, you know, and that's worked really well for a really good response to that. So over half of the sites we had to review because we could no longer afford to run them, you know, have gone into that model. So I'm kind of really pleased about that. So, you know, overall, I mean, you know, the first two years of that plan delivered, we're in the final year now. I mean, I have to say it's for the reasons we've just been talking about. It is more challenging. I think we are. It will, given those the cost base has moved again. We're going to have to come back again and review where we are. So I just don't, I don't think it will be enough of itself. You know, we'll have to think about how it can kind of where we go next. You know, I think minute, some of the things we've learned during that period will still be the things we need to continue to do. But, you know, it's probably not going to get us to quite the position we need to be in the long run. I think it has created time and space for us to do that, though. I mean, you know, the immediate crisis has been averted, but there is, there is going to be more to do.
JK:
Yeah, it's interesting to hear how you've had to, yeah, adapt as a charity and potentially adapt again, because of that, that challenging landscape, really, and I know you touched on it a little bit earlier. And again, this question's to do with the government, really, with the introduction of the ETA visa waiver scheme for inbound visitors, where visitors must pay, yeah, 16 pounds for visa waiver, has this impacted the number of children coming from countries outside the and using your hostels?
JB:
Absolutely, you know. And I this is, we've seen about a 15% decline this year in the numbers of people coming from overseas, and particularly, actually affected is school groups coming from kind of northern European countries. And I guess the thing is, you know, if, I mean, if you're coming on a luxury holiday. And 16 pounds is probably a drop in the ocean. But, you know, people come to IHA, and they might only pay 16 pounds for bed for the night, so it could double the cost of that, you know. So are, you know, with the kind of people who would, you know, who are coming to stay with us and their budgets, it's a, it's a big hit. And at the margins, I think that's just affecting, you know, people's decision about where they might, they might go. So, you know, and we're not alone in that. I mean, it's affecting the the tourism sector as a whole, but I guess, particularly for those, you know, working at perhaps the more affordable end, it's been a I suppose. I mean, the the issue around kind of visas and passports for young people is one of those sort of issues when it came via Brexit, and it kind of went under the radar. I just don't think it was an issue. People realise this was coming, you know, because people, most young people, would have travelled to the UK on an ID card before, and then suddenly you've got to buy them a passport at 60 pounds. And it's made the UK a much less attractive place for, you know, international young people in schools to come, which is a shame, you know, because there's so much about the UK that's wonderful. So, so that, I mean, there are, there is some work going on, obviously, the there's talk about youth mobility schemes, and there are one or two individual agreements now with places like France and Germany. So I'm kind of sort of cautiously optimistic that this might be an issue that you know, that we get around to fixing, but, but, yeah, it was not very helpful. On top of everything.
JK:
I know you said you were just cautiously optimistic there about mobility schemes. How confident are you in the government in delivering something like that? Do you think, considering Yeah, the news about the visa waiver?
JB:
Yeah, I think, I mean, maybe this is a wider point we might touch on in a minute about the sort of, there's at the moment, it does feel a little bit sometimes of a disconnect between kind of, you know, the positive words and actually what the actions might be. I mean, I think Rachel Reeve said at the conference last week, didn't she that, you know, she wanted to press on with that youth mobility scheme. But there's not much detail at the moment about that. My sense is it would be beneficial to young people aged 18 to 30, but I don't know whether it would tackle the issue for school children, you know, so so it might help, for example, you know the other area which has been affected for us through Brexit, as being able to encourage young volunteers, or indeed, young young people staying in the country for years, who used to work in our hostels and gave us like a really international feel to some of the places that, like in London, where we have a very international concept of people visiting. And that's been much harder through, obviously, through since Brexit. But I mean, so I think it will, it hopefully will help there. But at the moment, we don't have any kind of timetable or any detail, I guess, isn't helpful.
JK:
Yeah, and just building upon that a little bit more broadly, would you say there are any specific government cuts, particularly over the last year, that have really impacted you as a charity from a financial perspective? Do you think?
JB:
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, obviously, I mean, we've mentioned national insurance, which is sort of, you know, not a cut, I suppose, but a tax. What was, I think, disappointing for us was with two things, really, the the end of the National Citizen Service programme with nothing in its place. And then the end of generation green programme, actually, before the evaluation came out, which it did a few weeks ago, just saying how effective it was in kind of connecting young people to nature and so, so that was that was disappointing, because I guess in both those cases, the government was saying all the right things about kind of, you know, the importance of youth and experiences for young people. And indeed, when the NCS was ended, when government announced developing a national youth strategy, which we're still waiting for. Actually, I mean, it's promised in the autumn, and I think that's a good thing, but youth strategy, it won't deliver very much if all of the funding for the sector that delivers, it isn't, isn't there? So it seemed to me there was a missed opportunity there to maybe review some of the mechanisms. I mean, the NCS wasn't perfect, by any means, but, but to do you know, but to bring something else in, rather than having a gap, which means there are lots of young people this year who missed out, and I'm not optimistic. I'll be honest about you know what resources will be available in future. Likewise, generation Green was a programme that started in Covid. We had a couple of rounds of that, and it was about connecting young people, often who didn't have the chance to go on a school trip and never been away from home to nature through a short funded residential we had really good evidence about the impact that had on young people's confidence and resilience and their wellbeing. Ministers have been really positive in Defra around, you know, that programme and the impact it's had, and then I just got a letter saying that was the end of the programme. So, you know, it's um. I find that disappointing. We all understand that the government, you know, has a huge kind of crisis around funding and in the money growing on trees, but it just feels that there have been some missed opportunities to well, to think about some of the longer term impacts that those programmes have and to connect up. You know, the impact, for example, that access to nature or outdoor learning has on education, on health, on wellbeing, you know, so, so, yeah, I think it's been a it has been disappointing this year.
JK:
Yeah, no, it sounds like it. And I guess from your perspective as a charity, are you doing anything to counteract these measures that have been brought in by the government. Are you currently lobbying them to do anything right now to, yeah, to help your situation?
JB:
Yeah, I suppose, I mean, our response to this, and I realise I probably come across as a bit gloomy in what I've said so far, but I mean, you know, I mean, I guess what you'll find is, you know, better than me, is, you know, the charity sector is incredibly resourceful. It's positive about what it can do. It's always focused on the future, you know. And I, I've got an amazing team who do that too. And I guess, you know, I mean, what? Just thinking kind of broadly, and I'll come to the lobbying point in particular, but I mean, you know, we've in ourselves, we've we've obviously done the immediate recovery plan, that crisis response. The other thing we did, actually, earlier in the year, which was just mentioning, I think, is we did do an exercise to refresh and refocus our long term strategy. So, I mean, yeah, sometimes perhaps strategies feel like a luxury, but certainly for us, that exercise of, actually, what is the thing that we really do? Theory of changing the jargon, but yeah, what's the thing that we really make the biggest difference to? And focusing in on that, I think that's helped us think, well, in an era of reduced resources, where can we make the most difference to our beneficiaries? So I mean, just about to take a specific example of that. You know, we, in our previous pre Covid strategy, we talked a lot about, you know how we supported wellbeing? And of course, we do support wellbeing, but wellbeing is a very big thing. So the exercise we went through last year was which aspects of wellbeing, and then I think there's a academics have come up with a scale of seven aspects of wellbeing. We did some work. Well, you know, there are three of those, around confidence, around a sense of belonging, and around connection, both connection to nature and to heritage, but connection between people that we particularly help. And given, you know, what we do in our youth hospitals and in our charity so, and I have to say, having you know, so we now focus our strategy on those. And I think that whole exercise really brought the organisation together, gave us clarity about the things we could do quite intentionally and at, you know, perhaps less cost to really move the dial on those things. So I think I have to say, and I found that in other charities, I'm involved with them, and I'm chair of action with communities in rural England. So I've gone through a similar exercise, you know, that ability to so I'd really say to people, you know, don't, whatever you do, however it might feel like you can only think about the next year in front Don't, don't miss the opportunity to kind of keep that long term perspective. But yeah, I mean, and I suppose the other thing, which I think is a benefit of Covid has been, you know, everyone has collaborated more. I mean, you know, the charity sector can be a little bit patchy about that, and the funding environment doesn't always help people to work together. But, you know, I do feel that, you know, at all levels, we just know we can't do it ourselves, you know. And so actually, explicitly in our strategy, we now say that part of our priority is to work with others to achieve our charitable objective, which is kind of helpful. But then we've had, we've got a grassroots initiative now which is supporting those community groups, whether local or national, who are supporting people who've never felt the outdoors is for them. So a group called outdoor citizens, you know, you might have heard of organisations like Muslim hikers and things like that, who grew up in Covid and that's been wonderful. Actually, it's been really, really great. So working in partnership with those organisations has been brilliant. I mentioned earlier, now the local partners that we bring on board to run hostels who so we don't feel we have to own all the buildings in order to achieve what we do. And then nationally, actually, the I've talked a bit about generation green, and that's not a YHA initiative. It's, it's, we lead it, but it's a big coalition of national charities involved in, you know, the outdoors so, you know famous ones. You know the Scouts, Girl guiding Outward Bound field studies Council and then partnered up with all of the national parks in England to again, deliver experiences for young people in in wonderful landscapes. And that that coalition wouldn't have come together without Covid. It's been a really strong positive coalition, you know, both in terms of our ability to deliver a better programme and a better experience, but also on lobbying, you know, so that you've got a series of very well-known charity brands there, you know, national treasures, as somebody said. To me, you know, and I think if you're speaking as that group, then what you carry is going to what you say, is going to carry more weight than if it's just no one of you alone. So we have been kind of stepping up our efforts in that area. I mean, you might have seen about a month ago now, we when we got the evaluation of the generation green programme, which was so positive, we've really felt we needed to couldn't keep that to ourselves. We've written an open letter to Keir Starmer on that, still waiting for a response. I suspect he has quite a few of those letters on his desk at the moment, but, but part of the point there was, again, just trying to make sure that in the government could see that there is really strong evidence about how things that might not seem core to, you know, the current agenda have a real relevance to it. So they have a relevance to the missions. But also, a lot of talk at the moment isn't there about the kind of, you know, agenda around communities and, you know, division versus identity, belonging, all of so people, get outdoors, meet people from different backgrounds, you know, all feels really relevant to that agenda, too. So in part, what we were calling for in that, in that letter, was, you know, of course, for the government not to, not to cut the funding so they could possibly avoid it. But also just that sense of sort of policy integration. So there's, you know, things in what might be going on, in Defra on the environment, or in DCMS on youth, or whatever, actually contribute to those wider missions. And I'm just not quite sensing at the moment that policy integration is happening the way perhaps we all hoped.
JK:
Yeah, it's good to know. I guess out of all the doom and gloom that there's positive news of a lot of charities working together to, yeah, to lobby the government and make a difference. From your perspective, and I know a lot of sector leaders at the moment are talking about the civil society covenant and their different perspectives and different perspectives on that from your perspective. Are you completely happy with it, or do you think there are things that are missing that could be included?
JB:
It's a great question. I mean, I am, well, look, I mean, I think it's good that the government are doing a covenant, you know. And you know, the aspiration is clearly there under the launch few weeks ago. Now, wasn't it? Months ago was really positive. I mean, I don't think we'd ever seen so many cabinet ministers in the room as you got that day. I guess my for me, the jury's still out, really, until you see the covenant actually making a difference in action. I mean, it was, I think, literally, this time last year we had the, you know, the announcement about the covenant launch at number 10. And, you know, quite a large number of people were invited from the sector there. And there was a real sense of positivity. It was only two weeks after that that the NIC announcement was made in the budget, which was clearly, you know, dreamt up at the last minute and had no consultation whatsoever in with any other cabinet government department, let alone with the charity sector. And I suppose the proof of the covenant for me will will be when, you know, the sector gets consulted on look, we're having to think about doing this. What would that mean for you, you know, and it had a huge impact. I just don't think the government foresaw on, you know, charity, you know, whether it's hospices or charities like ours or others. And so that the proof of the pudding there does seem to me to be in that area when the Treasury is actually getting to a place where it's signed up to the covenant and receives that positive action. And I think I really feel it had some teeth. And I suppose then the other point, perhaps, is about sort of policy momentum. It's perhaps linked to the point I made before, I sort of, again, feel that there's a lot of areas speaking to other charity leaders, they feel the same, where there's a sense of a real wanting to do things that would be positive actually, you know, would be strategic answers to difficult, you know, society challenges that we're grappling with, but we're not quite kind of seeing that policy coming out. You know, I mentioned the youth strategy earlier, hopefully that will come to fruition before too long. But, I mean, it's now been over a year, I think, since that announcement was been made. So, you know, and that's true of other areas too. Just, you know, this is, you know, it's not just unique to the charity sector. I think a lot of sectors are feeling this, but the sort of government just being able to kind of bring forward policy in an integrated way, you know, co creating it with the sector, thinking about the connections to the funding environment, however tough, you know that that feels like what the covenant ought to stimulate. And I guess I just haven't, perhaps seen enough of that just yet.
JK:
Yeah, no, that's interesting to hear your thoughts on it, because I know a lot of sector leaders have different points of view about it. So yeah, it's good to hear your perspective on it all as well. And just going back a little bit to why I share as a charity, obviously, people are donating a lot less, particularly this decade, and a lot of that's coupled with the cost-of-living crisis. Still, would you say, from your perspective as chief exec, that's had a financial implication on your charity?
JB:
Yeah. I mean, I think it's getting harder and harder to, you know, to maintain that source of income. And I guess for us, you know before you know when, when our when the social enterprise part of our organisation was working really well. I mean, we were less exposed on that as soon as, course, as Covid hit, and our only source of revenue was, was fundraising. And like other charities, we've got a variety of different kind of, you know, types of fundraising. I mean, individual giving actually has been a real focus for us. Well, we're fortunate because we're a member charity. You know, basically we have all of our members are individual givers, if you like. We've got an incredibly loyal set of people who, they may not now, kind of stay with us, but they continue to support us and give to us. You know, we're also and then, and that might develop through their life, and then some, some of them will leave a legacy to us and so on. But, I mean, we are seeing that has, you know, it has started to drop off a bit after Covid, and I don't know whether that's cost of living, or whether that's just a number of choices people have got to make, I mean, or all of those things. And one thing I think that is, is happening generally at the moment, which is affecting, I think, consumer spending as well as kind of donations, is, I think the uncertainty about things like what's coming up in the budget every year is sort of stopping people from potentially making that commitment. Totally understandably, you know, I think it's affected the economy. So this time last year, everyone was worried about what the tax rises were going to be in the budget. And then this time this time this year, everyone's worried about what the tax rises are, and I think almost that, in itself, has a negative impact. I mean, I have heard some stats that say that people are saving more again because of, you know, wages rising above inflation for the first time in some years. So I guess we have to hope that there will come a point where people feel a bit more confident to, well, obviously, to spend money on their on what's important to them, and hopefully that will then benefit the causes that they support. But, you know, it is, it's, it is, it's hard going out there, and we've found, you know, it's, again, it's been a more volatile source of income than perhaps it was before. I guess the other thing actually, I mean, it's hard to know what's going on in the legacy world at the moment, we've kind of, you know, sometimes it's going up and sometimes it's going down, and we've definitely had that. I mean, there is, there is a bit of a sort of worry over the longer term, that if people don't have access to such secure pensions, people aren't saving as much through life as the generation, as we move through the generations, the ability of people to be able to leave legacies in the way they have will be lower. So I think that is a I think that's a long term issue for the sector that we just need to keep quite a close eye on.
JK:
Yeah, no, for sure, tricky, tricky economic times that we find ourselves in. And I was interested to read that why, as a charity, is a policy of including people with lived experiences in decision making, and I know that quite a few charities do this right now. How does this work in practice, and how does this help shape the core function of your charity? From your perspective, would you say?
JB:
Yeah, I mean, it's really important, and you know, and I wouldn't claim that we're, you know, by any means. You know, we're the organisation with all the answers on it. I mean, I suppose to give a couple of examples. I mean, the thing for us has been in our chair has been really a kind of passionate advocate of us, you know, making sure we do more on this has been about, how do you involve young people in, you know, both in our decision making and in, you know, in white shame or generally. So, I mean, we've had, for the last few years now, we've had young people on our board so directly involved in decision making. And I should say, That's not one of the things there is. It's about, you know, it's not just all. They're the young trustees, and they all they can contribute is being young, and they've got most, you know, these are young people with incredible skills and backgrounds, you know, often with much greater knowledge, for example, on safeguarding or on whatever the issue might be, than than the some of the other trustees in much longer career history. So and that came about, you know, simply by ensuring we were focusing on what the right kind of skills experience profile was in our recruitment, we're really lucky. We get amazing response to our kind of for our board recruitment every year, but that's been absolutely, that's been great, you know. So we've got a really and critical it has absolutely affected the decisions that we've made, you know. And and then we've also got, you know, as other youth sector charities have, we've had various different youth advisory panels or youth panels over time, and I think those sorts of things can help again at different levels. I mean, there's the sort of practical stuff, you know, we're designing a new website on your social media campaign, you know, will this resonate with you or not? And I'm not the right person to ask about. You know. So, so it can be practical like that. It can be policy, policy change and priority. So, you know, should we be folk do more or less on sustainability, and if so, which bits of sustainability, you know, what? What's, you know, controversial issues around, you know, I don't know, Edi or, you know, recent Supreme Court's judgments, or all those sorts of things. Again, getting a young people's perspective on that feels really important, because that's who our beneficiaries are. And then, yeah, just in the same way, I always feel in the same way that we might take legal advice or financial advice, you know, where we can use the youth panel to provide youth advice, you know, weigh all of those things up, so we make a better decision. So, so that, you know, I one of the things there is we know we need to make sure we continue to refresh, refresh that because people are young, and then they're not young. So there's something around how you bring in those perspectives and make sure those perspectives are as broad as possible. And obviously, youth is only one aspect of lived experience, isn't it? But I suppose it's the it's the key one for us, given, given our you know, with the youth Hospitals Association.
JK:
That's that's interesting how, yeah, you're using youth to help, yeah, shape your charity's future. Really, I know you touched on it with the digital side and other points as well. And I guess lastly, from your perspective, what would you say are both the short term goals for your charity, and the long-term goals for your charity going forward in the future. Do you think?
JB:
Yeah, I mean, obviously, I guess the short-term goal is, well, survival, but a bit more than survival. I mean, I suppose it's about, you know, putting YHA back on its feet, getting to a stable financial position. And you know, that has been, I think that's going to take longer, and it's been a more difficult process than perhaps any of us would have envisaged, even after Covid, you know. And it does feel like, you know, just waves of shocks are coming over us, and you know. So maybe it's not quite such a short-term thing after all. The long-term thing, though, is delivering our our strategy. I mean, I, I talked about it earlier, but one of the things that kind of gets us, you know, gets me out of bed every day, is the fact that I the mission that YHA was founded with back in 1930 you know, which is for everyone, particularly, you know, disadvantaged young people, to be able to connect with nature and heritage through our hostels and improve their health in education, feels, you know, even more relevant today, you only had to look in Covid about when everyone was locked down. 2 million kids were locked down without any access to green space. What happened when we were allowed out? Everyone went because they wanted to connect to nature. You see the value of that? You know, the best part of my job is going being in a hostel. And you see, you know, a group of young people, perhaps some year six, who've never been away from home before, never seen a sheep or a cow before. And the joy, you know, the transformation that that brings and memories that they'll make for a lifetime, is just, you know, absolutely amazing. And so, you know, we still want to be here doing that for another 95 years. And, you know, I guess the job at the moment is do whatever it takes to make sure in that position in future
JK:
Yeah, I mean, that's a really great message to end on, and that's everything I wanted to ask you today, really. So no. Thank you very much for your time, and it was interesting. Yeah, touching upon a variety of different topics, really, everything from, obviously, the financial situation you've been through, to your reaction to government announcements to your hopes for the future of the charity as well. So it sounds like you're in a good place going forward. So yeah, no. Thank you very much for your time today, James.
JB:
Well, thank you, Jasper. Really enjoyed it. Thanks very much.
JK:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Civil Society Podcast. You can like and subscribe to the podcast and listen to all of our other episodes on all major platforms. I hope you stay safe and well, and we'll speak to you again soon for another episode you.
