Civil Society has published a new podcast episode with Debbie Weekes-Bernard, London’s deputy mayor for communities and social justice on Volunteers' Week.
In this episode, Weekes-Bernard talks about what the Mayor of London's office is doing to help the charity sector and what the Mayor of London is looking for in the upcoming Spending Review.
You can listen to the interview below or on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music and Pocket Casts, where you can find our other podcast episodes.
AI-generated transcript
Chongyang Zhang
Let's start from the beginning. What was your first job in the charity sector?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
That's a really good question, because it was a long time ago. I first started working for an organisation called The Runnymede Trust, which is a race equality charity and think tank here in London. And I was seconded because I was on a pathway to become an academic. I was doing my PhD. I was a research fellow and a secondment opportunity came up to do this great job in London for this charitable organisation. And I really jumped at the chance because it was a charity I'd heard of, but also because I was a researcher, so I did lots of research, but when you do academic research, it can sometimes take quite a long time. The process can take a lot longer. You go through, like an ethics committee, you do papers, you gotta wait for it to be published. Whereas with the charitable organisation, I could see that I could do a piece of research, I'd been seconded to do a piece of research, and there'd be no huge delay. I could do the research, I could write the report, and it could pretty much be published, you know, almost immediately. And I really liked the fact that you could work for an organisation where what you were doing could have a direct impact on people, particularly people that you're trying to support or to help or to raise awareness of. So that was my first job in the charitable sector, and I really, really got the bug, I think. And thought, yeah, I think this is probably the life for me.
Chongyang Zhang
How did you come across this job opportunity?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
Well, it was because, so the research that I was doing, I was in Nottingham, and I was doing some research on young people who were being excluded from school and some of the experiences that they and their families were having, and it was particularly focused on race inequalities. So talking about some of the experiences that young people were having, largely because of their ethnic backgrounds, and I knew that the Runnymede Trust did a lot of work on just race inequality more broadly, but also with a focus on education, and so I was in touch. I knew that I probably got in touch with them to ask them about research that they were doing. And then they approached my research supervisor, and asked if she would mind loaning me out for a year or so to do some research, but also because, I think a lot of academics, particularly if you're doing research on communities that are underrepresented or are experiencing various forms of social injustice, often when you're in the academic space, you will work with the voluntary sector, particularly organisations who represent those communities. So I had been working with lots of charities before I'd even gotten this first job because they sort of acted as a bridge between a researcher who wanted to speak to people and participants and understand their perspectives, and try to make them part of policy solutions. And you know, so I got to know lots of charitable organisations in Nottingham doing great work with communities. So I kind of knew about a lot of those organisations already, and a lot of academics certainly know about great organisations that are doing work with communities who they want to work with, who they want to hear from, and who they want to maybe amplify the voices of. So yeah, it was an organisation I knew about, but also it was just a sector that I was increasingly becoming to know and understand. And I thought it would be a good sector to maybe spend some time in and get to know. And then I just spent years in the Civil Society sector because I loved it.
Chongyang Zhang
And have you always wanted to work in the charity sector, because I assume you went from the academia sector to the charity sector?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
It's interesting because I don't think, well, certainly at the time, I don't think people maybe know and appreciate what the charitable sector does. And I don't think at the time, there was a wide awareness of this great sector that does so many different things. I think increasingly now we know more about the charitable sector and about the voluntary and community sector than perhaps we did in the past. And I think certainly there are people, perhaps younger people, who are considering careers and are actually considering the charitable sector and the voluntary sector and the community sector. And that's good, that's important, because the pipeline of talent to come into the sector is really, really important. But I didn't know about the sector that much. I knew about the faith sector because I spent a lot of time in church with my family. So I knew about faith sectors and churches and what they do for communities, and not really seeing the link between the faith sector and the voluntary community sector. And that link was there definitely, certainly where I was growing up, in London, but I didn't really appreciate it. Until I suddenly thought, oh my gosh, if I want to do work on social justice. The best charity, the best sector really to work with is the charitable sector, because they are so trusted by people, and they do so much on the ground work. And if you want to do proper work to help and support communities, the charitable sector is definitely a place to do it in.
Chongyang Zhang
And apart from working with people from the communities and the research aspect of the charitable sector, what other traits of the sector that was attractive to you?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
It's the fact that often in the charitable sector, in the voluntary community sector, they are often doing work which is not necessarily championed that much. So they're like our unsung heroes. And I think what I particularly liked about the sector when I was getting into it at the time, was just how vast it is and how many different parts of the sector. There is for example, when I was doing my PhD, I was working with organisations who supported young women who were young mothers. So these were small organisations usually run by women who themselves had become mothers very early on in life, and wanted to give back and support other young women. So they either started up charities themselves, or were working with other charities so that they could sort of lend their experience of what can be a really difficult time when you're very young and you're becoming a mother, and it can be quite isolating, and there's lots of stigma, you know, obviously associated with that entire group of young women. So I worked with those charities. I worked with youth clubs and youth workers who were working with other charities, who were supporting young people, making sure that they had places to go to, things to do in the evenings and at weekends and then also coming to know some of those charities that were doing other types of work, like there was a charity in Nottingham that was an African arts and culture charity which was just doing really important work, raising awareness about African arts and culture. And I think as I've got to know the sector even more in this job, it's realising just how wide the sector is and how many opportunities there are for people to get involved, to volunteer their time, or indeed, to build a career in this sector, and often it's a sector that is taking on the work that perhaps lots of statutory services would like to be providing, but can't due to cuts, can't do to capacity resourcing, etc. And you've got charities who are doing this work, and they're doing it really, really well, but the demand for them, certainly now, with the cost of living crisis, is really increasing. So, you know, it's just a vast and I don't think we really appreciate just how many parts of the sector there actually really is.
Chongyang Zhang
What makes you want to switch careers from the charity sector to the public sector?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
That's interesting. Well, okay, the first thing is that there are lots of similarities between the two, because when you work in the public sector, you are effectively a public servant. Your role is to support the public and to be there to ensure that people have what they need to thrive, to get by, to prosper, etc. And charities do the same. They are acting as public servants also, albeit with sometimes very specific areas of focus. So they're very similar areas. They focus on very similar areas. There are lots of transferable skills. So there are lots of things that you do in the charitable sector that actually would equip you to work in the public sector. And the reason for this, which was just because I think Sadiq wanted me to join his team, and I said, Yes, please. And I think when you have an opportunity to take something that you're doing in the charitable sector and to put it in the public space where your remit is even broader and your reach is greater, that's not an opportunity you can pass by really and so I was really excited by having the opportunity to do that. I was working for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. Before I became the deputy mayor, and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation focuses on tackling poverty, I was doing a lot of work on the link between race and poverty. And coming into this role, I was able to take a lot of that and work with great teams who've designed amazing interventions and programmes which are about tackling the high rates of poverty that many of our racially minoritized communities are experiencing here in London. And whilst I was able to do really impactful research and policy work at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, I was able to come to the mayor's office with a mayor who really cares about this work, very value driven, and be able to put into practice a lot of the solutions that we were developing at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, and that was just amazing. It's been brilliant having the opportunity to do that.
Chongyang Zhang
I know that the Mayor's office also works and supports charities in London. So, for people who don't know, can you tell us more about how the mayor's office is helping charities and the voluntary sector in London?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
So in lots of different ways. I think one of the ways that we really focused in on the work that we do to support charities is during COVID. And during COVID, we were able to work with lots of different funders to pool our resources to ensure that many of those charitable organisations who were doing really great work in communities, who were delivering prescriptions and food and running befriending services to people who were isolated and were isolating, and we were able to to come together as funders and support them to be able to adapt their ways of working so that they could operate, continue to operate under COVID rules, and we've always tried to champion the Civil Society sector. We've run programmes where we build capacity in charitable organisations and voluntary sector organisations, because we know that trying to continuously get funding is something which preoccupies you in the Civil Society space, and because you're constantly bidding for funds to continue work, you often don't have the space that you need to build the capacity in your organisation so that people are able to. Engage in training and to skill themselves up to build careers for themselves. So we've helped to build capacity in many of those organisations, we've tried to respond to funding requirements by doing some of that pooled work that I've mentioned. We recognise that when you've got moments of real crisis. So COVID was obviously huge crisis for the world. It was a global crisis. And now, as we're going through the cost of living crisis, during times of crisis, people do rely on the voluntary and community sector a lot, a lot more than they would ordinarily. And it's really important, I think, for us in the public sector and in funding spaces to give the charitable sector what it needs to be able to respond to that demand. Because I know that there are lots of organisations that sadly, had to close during COVID because they couldn't keep up with the demands that were being placed on them, because people needed to have access to food and have access to advice, to have access to support, but not all of the organisations had the funding that they needed to be able to respond effectively to that, and so we've always tried to ensure that we are working with other funders to give charitable organisations and the Civil Society sector itself, what it needs to respond to that demand. It's difficult to do because demand fluctuates. But you know, when you have times of economic crisis, when you have times when people need to reach out for help. They are going to reach out for help to the organisations that they know and the organisations that they trust. And we know the mayor office that they may be more likely to go to a charity than they are to come to us. And so if you're going to go to somewhere that you trust, which is brilliant. We need to make sure that those organisations have what they need to respond to you effectively. So we've always tried to respond to those organisations that are themselves, trying to respond to high levels of demand.
Chongyang Zhang
And Debbie, you came into this role from the charity sector, and you talk about the similarity and the transferable skills, but what were some of the things that you were not expecting in your current role?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
That's a good question. I think probably one of the things that I wasn't really expecting so much, I think, was just how important it is to, so I know that leadership is really important, but how important it is to be out there showing people that you care, that you understand, that you are responsive, and going out there and sort of making sure that you're speaking to people, meeting people. I wasn't used to that. I was used to doing the work in the background. I was used to being a researcher. I was used to being the one that would show up with the research finding and saying, This is what we need to do. These are the solutions. This is the best way to try to tackle this issue. So actually being sort of like the person at the front that was a bit of a shock to the system. I don't think my children have seen me on social media so much before in their lives. They literally just see their mother's face constantly, always on social media doing something, but it's really important to do that work. At the moment, we've got a campaign that we launched very recently. It's called loved and wanted, and it's about showing Londoners from all walks of life, all backgrounds, that regardless of where they're from, in a city like London, which is incredibly diverse, they will always be loved, wanted, supported, valued, respected, and to do that work, we want to work with charitable organisations because we recognise that there are so many organisations out there who are standing up for people who were not born in the UK, for example, people who are trying to regularise their migration status, people who are experiencing high rates of poverty. So they're out there doing the really important work, and we want to support them to be able to continue to support people who, at times of experiencing, seeing real moments of division across the globe. We know that the far right is on the rise, and there are increasing narratives which are really unsettling to people who are feeling quite persecuted or feeling quite unloved. So this campaign is about sending out that message, and in order to do it effectively, we've got to do it with charitable organisations, and so we're working with them to try to do this work. But part of it is about making sure that people can see myself and the Mayor of London sort of showing that leadership. And so it's really important in those moments when people are feeling uncertain or unsettled or worried or fearful, that you've got leaders who are sort of standing up and saying, We stand alongside you, regardless of where you are from who you are, and we always will do and that is about quite showing visible leadership, also about choosing your words really carefully. And all of these are things which I've learned on the job, but they weren't things that necessarily I would have done, perhaps in the charitable sector. I think that's probably one of the biggest difference about the sector that I'm in, which is about the importance of showing that visible, clear narrative leadership to communities. And we couldn't do that without the charitable and voluntary sector organisations who work with and always continuously, day in and day out, stand up for communities and are known and trusted by those communities. So we do that in conjunction with them, and then we just amplify what they're doing, because that's our jobs, really.
Chongyang Zhang
You talk about the importance of being on the ground and being side by side with community, and it just reminded me of the report NCVO and ACEVO released recently, there was about more than 1,000 voluntary organisations stated that there was a barrier on collaboration between charities and the state, and there was a lack of respect and understanding of how the charity sector operates. So do you think the government is out of touch and doesn't know how charities operate? What's your take on that?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
I think that increasingly the government is understanding more about what charities do and how they operate. The Civil Society Covenant that they've drawn up is a really good attempt to make sure that they're working alongside charitable organisations, but also understanding what charitable organisations need. I don't think that we necessarily had those levels of commitment previously with previous governments, and I think that that's that covenant is really an attempt to really show that this is a moment to reach out, to acknowledge the sector, but then also ensure that it's listening, so that it can properly provide what the sector really needs. I mean, I really do stress, I mentioned before the unsung heroes, but it's a sector which doesn't always get thanked for what it does but does it anyway, because this is work that needs to be done. And so I'm hoping, and I'm hopeful, that this marks a drive towards trying to work more collaboratively with the sector, working alongside them. It's a covenant, which is it's an agreement between the state and the sector. So we should look forward with interest to see how that work develops.
Chongyang Zhang
And you stepped into your current role more than six years ago, that was before COVID, before the cost of living crisis, there was a different government. So, how has your work changed over the years? And how has the relationship between charities in London and communities in London changed since you stepped in? That's
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
That’s a big question. Goodness. Gosh. So I think one of the ways that I think maybe the relationship has changed is that I think there's been more of a proper understanding of how to fund charitable organisations, because I come from the sector, I know just how difficult it is to be able to just proactively do the work you want to do as an organisation, but realise that you have to sort of adapt and change dependent on what the funding theme from an organisation suggests that you should be focusing on and that can be quite frustrating, particularly, I think, for organisations that are working in particular spaces, if you working on racial justice, for example, or climate justice, or you're working on tackling poverty, or whatever it is that you're working on so I think over time probably COVID really helped to change some of this. Funders are funding differently. I think funders are more willing to fund core work. Now, when I was working back at the Runnymede Trust, trying to get funders to fund core work was really hard. It was, you know, just that wasn't going to happen and now, increasingly, I think there is an understanding that it's really important to support core activity, to enable a charitable organisation just to function, so that they can do all of the other areas of work that they want to do. So that has definitely changed. I think since I have been in the role the relationship between communities and the VCS and charitable organisations has also changed. I think that there is more awareness in communities about what charities do. I think that the cost of living crisis, which sort of prioritised the role of food banks, for example, and has also prioritised the role of advice organisations who are there to help you to get yourselves out of debt if you find yourself in debt, to help you to pay bills that you are worried about, all of those things, I think that there has been a real shift in understanding that these organisations exist in your community and you can access them, whereas the awareness, I think potentially, about them, wasn't there as much. And I think the awareness of them has also increased on the other side, so on the side of regional government. So us, you know, regional government, national government, funders, etc, and that's been a shift for the good, and I'm really glad to see that, because it's an acknowledgement of the important work that they do in London. We know that we've got a great VCS. We know we've got a great advice sector. One of the things I was really keen to do when I became a deputy mayor was to sort of recognising that the mayor only has a certain type of powers. It's really important, if you're in poverty, to be able to maximise your income. So we have funded continuous advice services to be able to help people to know where they can go to access funds, to get themselves out of financial challenges. Funds often that they are often eligible for but they had no awareness of. And we have continued to do that even before COVID. But you know, during COVID and during the cost of living crisis, and that's something that's really important. And those are advice the advice sector. These are charitable organisations. They're in the voluntary sector. They do good work. And so I know that that has shifted, and I'm really glad to see that shift. And the proof is in the impact that it has on people's actual lives. If they can see a tangible change in their lives as a result of the contact that they have had with a charitable organisation with an advisor, whatever, and that tangible difference is a positive difference, then that's brilliant. That's what we want to see. And I think that's definitely what has changed substantially, just the awareness raising of what charities do here in here in London.
Chongyang Zhang
Are there any specific projects that you're proud of?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
Yeah, I've been talking I'm super proud of those advice projects. When I worked at Joseph Rowntree, I knew that there were certain things that we could do to try to tackle poverty. I knew it was about housing. It was about having a welfare system and a safety net that pays all of those things. As soon as I got the job, I just thought, right, what is it that I can do? And we funded advice. We put advisors in schools. We put them in GP surgeries. We've put advisors in food banks, in community sectors, centres, and faith organisations, and we know that since we've been doing that, we've put 50 million pounds into people's pockets. And that's a huge amount of money. Nearly 100,000 people have been able to benefit. And what's been so good about that is not just the fact that it's been able to give to people who are struggling financially what they need to be able to thrive and get by, but also because of the way that we've targeted the work those communities who are most likely to live in financial difficulty tend to be from racially minoritized communities. Tend to be women, tend to be single parents, are more likely to have a disabled member of the family, and are the least likely to ask for help. They're the most likely to want to try to find their own way through, and they're the ones who are most likely to benefit from that kind of support. And so what's been so good about all of this is that about 70% of the people we've helped through all of those programmes have been from a racially minoritized community, and I know that's because we've adapted the way that we have run those programmes to place advisors in places where people frequent. If you show up to a place for one thing, and then you can have a conversation with a person who's interested, and then you discover through that conversation that actually that person is managing huge levels or not managing huge levels of debt, and is really worried about being able to afford rent or bills, and that conversation leads to helping that person to manage that debt and to pay those bills. That's all you can ever ask for. So that's one of the things. There are so many things I'm proud of, but that in particular, I'm super, super proud of that because I know that's made a proper difference in people's lives.
Chongyang Zhang
Thank you for sharing. And what's keeping you busy these days? Any new or big project coming up?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
What's keeping me busy? So there are a couple of things keeping me busy. One of the things that we're working on at the moment is we are developing a memorial to those who are descendants of the enslaved so of African descent. And this memorial is going to be played on the royal docks to kind of signify the fact that there are lots of financial institutions in London which basically benefited from the transatlantic slavery. And I think what's so exciting about this particular piece of work is that it will involve us working with teachers, youth workers, community-based organisations that are interested in this area of work, so that we can do a big piece of work around talking about why it's important to remember this moment in London's history and in Britain's history, and to open up the conversation. And it's a difficult conversation, but some of the best conversations are the most difficult conversations, and I think what's so important about this is not even just the fact that we're opening up the conversation. It's the fact that we're going to be working with so many different community organisations, different local historians, people who do walks around London and point out different parts of the city where the impact of slavery is kind of very self-evident. We're going to have satellite sites in different parts of London. So there are different parts of the city where it's really relevant to that community. Having a conversation in that place is necessary. And we're hoping to also have a global conversation with other parts of the world as well about this. And so I'm really interested in it. I think that it will be important to have those conversations, and I'm also in that theme or area of work, also working with other deputy mayors on making sure that we are constantly prioritising equality, diversity and inclusion work. There's lots of organisations that do this work, lots in the Civil Society sector, but we know that at the moment, being able to talk about these issues is very difficult because it's seen as being very divisive, and because of the way that the global conversation has started to change when talking about equality or talking about diversity. People are worried about whether or not they will still be able to run projects, if they'll still receive funding, if they'll still be able to raise awareness or prioritise these areas across communities, because they think that there is a real shift in the way people want to talk about these issues. So I'm really keen to make sure that we are continuously saying it's important for us to do this work, it's important for us to talk about equality. We have legislation that protects all a range of different communities from discrimination, and that equality act and that legislation exists for a reason, and it's important for us to show that leadership, to show people that if we're not afraid to talk about it, we will support those of you who want to do this work, so that you're not afraid to do that work, and we will stand alongside you, etc. It's really important in moments like this, when you can feel that people are worried, that lots of lots of achievements that we've made over the years in this space of equality feels that those achievements are being rolled back. And it's really important in moments like this to stand up, be counted, reach out, support, do all of those things which is necessary. So I'll be doing a lot of that kind of work, because it's important to do it. And there's lots of really interesting areas of work that I think you know, the moment is right for a big conversation about big issues, but also the moment is right to have a big conversation about the sector that I was from, sector that gave me my first job, a sector that does so much for people. And I'm also going to be trying to encourage people to think about volunteering in that sector. It's a sector that relies on its volunteers. There are many organisations that wouldn't be able to do the great pieces of work that they do were it not for people just showing up and volunteering occasional shifts. And volunteering is great because it gives people experience. It gives you work experience for those of you who are thinking about changing careers, but it also helps with isolation. There are so many people who volunteer locally, because it gets them out of the house, it gets them to meet people, it gets them to make friends, engage in conversation, and it's a really great way of people giving back. So I'll be trying to do a bit more work to try to uplift the volunteering effort and try to encourage as many people who are able to, to volunteer.
Chongyang Zhang
Thank you. And is the mayor's office looking for anything specific in the upcoming June Spending Review?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
Lots of things, as you can imagine. I think we want to make sure that we are able to continue to do some of those big pieces of work that we know are important for Londoners. The mayor has really prioritised housing. We know that there is a housing crisis across the nation, and so we'll be trying to ensure that the work that we do on housing, or the plans that we have to build more affordable homes, build more social homes for, particularly for those on low incomes, that we are able to to do that with government's help. So yeah, there'll be quite a few things we'll be asking for.
Chongyang Zhang
And Debbie, is there anything else you think people should know about the work you do, and the work that the mayor's office is doing?
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
Well, I mean, just look out for our social media posts. We're doing an awful lot, and we do that just to let people know what we're doing. I think there are a couple of things that people might not know that the mayor is doing. One of the things that I think is really important is tackling homelessness. He's launched an action plan to get rid of street homelessness by 2030, that is an ambitious plan. We are in 2025, but it's an acknowledgement of the really important work we can do if we work together collaboratively across all of the sectors that support people. Some of it will involve making sure that we have people located in places that can give advice to those who are street homeless to try to ensure that they don't have to go back to the streets if they are experiencing homelessness. And some of that is around advice. So a lot of the work that I've been funding and supporting around locating advisors in different places so that you can meet people where you're at. It's very similar. It's also one of the issues with street homelessness is that a huge portion of those who are street homeless were born outside of the UK, and there are people who find themselves on the street because they're worried about deportation. They're worried about being able to regularise their status, so often, making sure that you've got people who have got immigration advice, expertise in places that are also supporting people to come off the streets is a really, really good way of giving them what they need, so that they don't have to return to the street. So that's something that the mayor launched very recently. I only mentioned it because not everyone may know that it's something that he's keen on doing. But I think it's important for people to know about the vast array of different things that we're doing at the mayor's office, because something like that, which everyone will know about. Everyone will have seen someone who has been rough sleeping. They see it, they will be worried about it. I think it's important for people to know that we're trying to do our very best to try to tackle it. And we'll be working with the government, we'll be working with local authorities, we'll be working with faith organisations, the voluntary and charitable sector to try to tackle that. So, yeah, that's definitely one thing that I'm happy to share with your listeners.
Chongyang Zhang
Thank you so much. Debbie. That's all the questions I have for you. Thank you once again for your time. I really appreciate it.
Debbie Weekes-Bernard
Thank you.
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