To mark the one-year anniversary of the Women in Charity Network, Emily Moss is sitting down with its founders, Harriet Edwards and Laura Williamson, to discuss their work encouraging more women to take up senior roles across the sector and chat about the challenges they've faced, and their plans for the future. The network runs in-person and online networking and mentoring sessions throughout the year and has so far gained over 700 members in its inaugural year.
You can listen to the interview now below or on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Pocket Casts, where you can find our other podcast episodes.
AI-generated transcript
Emily Moss: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Civil Society Podcast. I'm Civil Society’s junior reporter, Emily Moss, and on today's show, I'll be speaking with Harriet Edwards and Laura Williamson, the founders of the Women in Charity Network, which was set up last year and is celebrating its one-year anniversary this week.
The Women in Charity Network is doing brilliant work to encourage more women to take up senior roles in the charity sector. Evidence shows that despite women making up nearly 70% of the voluntary sector workforce, and women and girls being far more likely to rely on charity services, men still occupy the majority of decision-making roles. Of the largest charities in the UK, only 34% have a female CEO and men outnumber women by 2:1 on charity boards.
Despite some progress, many women, particularly those from minoritised backgrounds, continue to face exclusion from the rooms where it matters. The Women in Charity Network wants that to change, and is doing so through peer mentorship, insight sharing and network building/
I hope you find this conversation with Harriet and Laura interesting and useful, and I'll speak to you again at the end.
EM: So to start off with, obviously the stats on under representation of women in more senior roles in the sector obviously speak for themselves, but was there a particular watershed moment or statistic that first inspired you both to create the women in charity network?
Harriet Edwards: Yeah…
EM: And what specific needs were you seeing like prior to establishing it that made you think: right, we're going to do this. We're going to create this.
Laura Williamson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, I think for us working together and being surrounded by really inspiring women in the charity sector really made us realise how powerful that can be in itself. And so, when we started talking about sort of other women in the charity sector maybe wanting to progress ourselves into leadership roles, eventually, it sort of made us realise that there was a gap for other people to have those women in those leadership roles to learn from to network with and to sort of be inspired by. And I think that really was sort of the key thing that made us really passionate about opening up those doors for other people. There are some statistics that sort of when we did a little bit more digging were really quite shocking. So things like despite women making up nearly 70% of the voluntary sector workforce and women and girls, actually, using a lot more charity services than other people, men still occupy the majority of those decision-making roles. So, in the UK out the largest charities that we have here, only 34% have a female CEO and men outnumber women on charity boards two to one. So, despite sort of women being a huge part of the charity sector, both as a workforce and as a user base, they're not in those decision-making roles. And that means that the decisions that are being made are not necessarily being made in in favour of women all the time. So yeah, we thought it was really important to open that door, bring other women into sort of being inspired by each other and progressing all together. I think we have a little slogan like ‘women who can lift each other up together’. And so, yeah, so we wanted to make sure that that that that happened.
EM: Amazing. And you don't have anything to add?
HE: I've got nothing to add, Emily. You've covered it all Laura, but and yeah, it was essentially Laura and I worked together a year ago and we just felt really motivated and had a bit of time and energy also to do this. And I think that's the thing that I found really inspiring and exciting is that we had an idea and we've been able to put legs to it. And now we've got a committee behind us as well, who is helping us drive this work forward in its second year and so the network really wouldn't be here if people didn't keep showing up to our events and really supporting us with their insights and their ideas for what they want. And we're really trying to be led and driven by women across the sector. So, we like to think of ourselves just as the people steering this ship, but we're really not. The network is so much bigger than Laura and I.
EM: Yeah. Wow. And yeah, you've got so over 700 members already from just one year. So, did you have any particular strategies that you implemented to try and attract and retain so many members over the last year?
HE: You know… yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's fair to say we started quite organically, definitely all a volunteer led network, no one's getting paid. We don't make any money from any of this. So we have had to go with the capacity we have and really feel our way through for a bit and it has taken a bit of time. But events have been so popular and it's those in person connections that people really told us they value, especially post-pandemic. There just weren’t the same spaces to do that. And so the events have really been a great way to bring those numbers up and bring people in, but also LinkedIn's been an amazing platform, hasn't it Laura?
LW: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really been a like a positive feedback loop. You know, we've put on events that we're excited about people have attended and been really enthusiastic about them and continue to attend and joining the LinkedIn group. And so that's also, you know, fed back that enthusiasm back to us to keep it going and kept producing really exciting events for the next time. So yeah, I think that as much as we want to provide a safe space to inspire and to network, we also get the same back from our members who inspire us and keep us going and want to keep doing it.
HE: Yeah.
EM: Yeah, yeah, that's so amazing. It's so cool that it's entirely volunteering because I hadn't realised until I read all of the press release information that I got from Katie. Yeah, it's amazing. Could you share a little bit about your personal journeys and how they shaped what you wanted out of the Women in Charity Network?
HE: Hmm. Yeah. Laura, do you want to go first?
LW: Yeah, I can do so. I mean, my career in the charity sector has been sort of four, five-ish years now. I like to convince myself I'm still at the beginning of my career, but I probably need to accept I'm not anymore. But sort of my background before that was really in sort of science and academia. And then I kind of fell into the charity sector, so after having studied public health policy, I was like that sounds really interesting and that's why I sort of entered into the health policy space and that just happened to be, yeah, in in the charity sector. And I've worked. Yeah, over the past few years in sort of different size organisations. So, some really, really tiny like 10 person led organisations, up to you know, where I work now, which is a much bigger charity. And I think it's been a really interesting journey to sort of see not only how that impacts the work that you're able to do, but also the feeling within an organisation. And I think that's something I personally really love about working in the charity sector is actually, yeah, that sort of like internal passion and that drive to really achieve something. And for me that's, you know, really why I get out of bed in the morning… is because I think as a collective, we're all working towards something. And that is, yeah, that's absolutely what I love about working in the charity sector and sort of what keeps me here for sure. And I suppose sort of why I think women in the charity sector have been particularly impactful in in my career is that I've been really lucky to be managed by a few different women at various different stages of their career, who've always encouraged me to be really authentic. And I think that's really important, when you can bring your authentic self to work and sort of push me to develop at a personal level, as well as that pushing for better as a charity and for that ultimate goal that you're working towards.
EM: Yeah. Amazing.
HE: And as one of Laura's ex line managers, I'm going to take that, that's about me! But whether it is or not, Laura, we can discuss… yeah, I think so many similarities to Laura's journey there. So we're both in the policy space and in the charity sector.
I started off with a politics degree at university. I didn't really know what to do with that afterwards and I couldn't afford to intern. I couldn't afford to not work for money, so my idea was to train as a social worker and I thought, OK, this will be the route for me into something that's gives me that feel good factor, is people focussed and is also change-related, but quickly realised that practise for me was quite a bit too close to it. It was a really hard job, social work. I don't think I need to tell people that but I really missed that bigger wider picture thinking. So, when a job came up at British Heart Foundation and that was leading the supporting team, assistant work, and then also helping develop social care policy, it was a really perfect role for me at that time, so I feel really passionate about those types of roles and how we get more women into the sector into those junior positions. I think that's one of my main drivers behind this network too, is to give people who are just entering the sector space and opportunity to meet others, to feel the same passion that Laura's just described, because that doesn't happen in a vacuum. You don't just work at a charity and care all the time. Like, it's a job, and you're going to have days where it's hard, but I think that what has made me so much more motivated and inspired is the people I've worked with-- the same as Laura, and especially those women that have led to me. And I think I would just add to that-- now I'm about 10-15 years down the line. So, I'm a bit older and grumpier than Laura, but across that path in policy and campaigning, I just feel so passionate about the power of communities and grassroots activism. And that change can happen. And actually, if we all join together and put lived experience, insight and voice at the heart of that, I've seen multiple times where that has driven change in society. So I really wanted to try and apply those same principles to the network and see what we could do as a collective of women. But we are also really aware that there's a much further for us to go and there's many more women who would love to be in the network and that we're just learning and starting out. So we're very aware we are growing and learning.
EM: Yeah. Wow. It's so interesting to hear, like your different journeys and, yeah, how you're both in the policy space as well is interesting because I was going to say, do you think that's influenced your approach to running the network?
HE: Yeah.
LW: I mean, from my perspective, I think it's sort of twofold. I think my involvement in the network comes from a desire, exactly as Harriet was saying, to sort of create that change that you want to see in the world. And ultimately that's why I work in policy at the same time and, you know when, but also for me it was about, you know, working with women who were inspiring from a career perspective. You know, when they say how about this network? Like, what do you think of this idea? Like, I think it's important to say yes and jump on those opportunities to, yeah, like, follow your passion, but also, you know, make the most of the opportunity that you've been given. And as Harriet says, I think we are really proud of what we have developed so far. But we also have a real vision for where we want to take it and sort of the growth that we want to see both in terms of the number of members that we have, but also in the reach that we're having. So, making sure that the network remains free and accessible to as many people as possible, but also that it reaches a wider range of women in the charity sector. So whether that's, you know, a broader range of ages, whether that's a broader range of ethnicities, whether that's a broader range of charities and causes that people work within, like there is a real, I think like, drive for us to sort of keep it growing and use our skills working in policy and influencing to keep that growing.
EM: Yeah.
HE: It definitely it definitely has given us confidence. I think the policy background to have the framework to maybe approach some of these challenges and think about strategy as well and the kind of the way that we could go about community organising, I would say and also the confidence in knowing that this is the right way to go, and that there's ways to use data and evidence and insights and that we were supported by that, I think that definitely helps me knowing that that work exists and that that work we were referencing was actually done by Pro Bono Economics the year before we launched. So, it's all perfect timing and I'm sure there's much more out there that could be done to really get into the granularity of some of these challenges women are facing and really understanding people's lived experience.
EM: Yeah. Yeah, definitely, yeah. And so obviously now it's been a year since the founding of the network. So do you have any particular achievements or milestones that you reached in the first year that you're like especially proud of that you want to talk about a bit?
HE: Yeah. So I think we're really, really proud at the size and the number of people and so we're about 700 members now who we're reaching on a regular basis, largely through LinkedIn. And we're so inspired by that community of women; people have started sharing a lot more with each other and supporting each other outside of the event spaces that we've created and that's what we really love to see is that domino effect from the official events and how far this could go in people's own lives and the way they want to use the network. So that's what we really want to lean into next is really understanding people's motivations and what their ideas are and what they need from the network, so that we're able to facilitate those spaces. And I think we're also really proud of the events that we've put on. We've been really fortunate to have some incredible speakers from across the sector who have given us their time, their energy, their stories, they've shared with authenticity and really, you know some… I feel like sometimes I've cried as well because women have just like really given to us and been very honest with their experiences. And it's been incredibly powerful and generous of them to do that because it's not easy to share those personal stories in in public settings.
EM: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, not at all.
HE: Things, especially when you get to a certain level of leadership, you know, there's a lot of messaging around, ‘you've got to be a certain type of leader’ or ‘you need to be serious’ and ‘lead like men lead’, for example. But I think what has been really impressive and I'm really proud of, for the network, is that we've showcased feminine leadership style and we've showcased the power of leading through your authentic self.
EM: Yeah, that's so true.
LW: Yeah, I think a sort of, I guess, don't know whether it's a milestone per se, but I think that when we set out to sort of know plan our first event and create the network, a key part of that was creating safe spaces for both that formal learning and being inspired, but also that informal networking and so for me like a really sort of a key milestone for me is actually the fact that we have created those safe spaces that people can come to and bring their thoughts and opinions and ideas and share them in a really open way. And actually, the openness of our events has been a real satisfying thing for me to see.
EM: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It’s so good to hear about-- especially the feminine leadership point. That's so interesting. I think that's definitely something I think in a lot of sectors, that, you know, in the push for gender parity, people forget that we don't want to behave like men, that’s the whole thing we're trying to get away from so yeah, it's so important.
HE: And then, yeah, and it's hard as well because you have to remember that we all still go on the same types of training, that some of the trainings we're all going on here have been around for decades and they've all been built with a male view in mind. And I've been in multiple media trainings, for example, where I've been told to speak with a lower voice, for example. And that's really rooted in the idea of a male voice having power or like more strength for example, and so even though it can be quite easy to think that we've made so much progress as a sector and that is true, there is still a long way to go and there's a lot more we should be pushing for as the charity sector and we can, we should be leaders in in this space because we represent so many women and the workforce is so female.
EM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why-- going back to that stat you brought up at the beginning of the call is even more shocking because you do just think… because one of the questions, I was going to ask you was about was: did you experience any underrepresentation yourself, when you were going both going through the workforce? Like generally day-to-day, I imagine in most charities, it's like in the actual office, you're not seeing, you know, just a sea of men, like, if you worked in finance or whatever. And yet, you know, at the senior level, that is what it sounds like it is.
LW: Yeah, definitely. I think that it's… you know, you can be surrounded by women, but not even realise that the decision-making process above your heads is not being led by women. And yes, I think those stats are really important to sort of remember that. Yeah. As Harriet says that has been… like the charity that I work for has a female CEO and our previous one was as well and they're incredible women. But I also recognise that that is not the norm and actually, you know, when you look to other CEOs, but also when you look to those boards which ultimately are those charity decision makers, how many women are on there, how many women are chairs of boards in particular, is sort of, I think, particularly important, not only for the internal workings of an organisation, when you're working in the charity sector, but also for the services that charities are providing and the communities that they're reaching. And I think, yeah, all of it is inevitably influenced by those decision makers, and it's really important that there is equality across those roles.
EM: Yeah, yeah, definitely and so, I guess going forward-looking more now towards like the future and first of all, have you partnered with any other organisations or networks yet and if not, are you planning to in the future, like for example, perhaps like other underrepresented groups’ networks?
HE: Yeah. Yes, we would love that, Emily. I mean, I think that's our big message today is that we really for anyone out there that would love to partner with the Women in Charity Network, get in contact. We'd love to hear from you. We want to keep this network free as we can and accessible for the women in the sector. But we can't do that forever without partnership support. We've had the real generosity of Ellwood Attfield, they're a recruitment agency at the moment who have given us an event space twice now and we're really thankful for that. But we can't, you know, we need diversity and people that we're working with and we would definitely love to be working with more networks, especially those [that] represent other communities. So huge yes to that question.
EM: Yeah, that's great. And do you have any in mind, do you have any that you're talking to at the moment?
HE: Oh well, anyone with a great big room and I think also we're really mindful that there's a lot more we could be doing in regional areas of the UK and online with online events too. But it does come down to capacity to organise those things. And so, any regional partners that are really interested in getting involved or doing versions of these events then we'd love to hear from them as well as speakers as well. So, we did a webinar with a coach just before Christmas and that was incredibly popular for more of a specific training event, but again that coach gave us their time for free and we’ve really been relying on the generosity of people in coming forward, but we hope we give them back, as Laura said, we hope they're getting the inspiration back as well from the community and the networks. That's certainly how we feel when we organise these events.
EM: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
LW: Yeah. Yeah. And I think as I think as well by you know, where other networks or other groups of people are open to collaboration, you know, obviously for us that's a benefit that we're reaching people who would not manage to reach organically yet. But we would hope that you know that that there are stories that we as a network can bring to other groups that they might find inspiring.
HE: Yeah. Yeah.
LW: Or useful and skills that we might be able to offer as women in the charity network that other networks don't necessarily have already. So yeah, I like to think that it would go both ways if we can collaborate with other groups. And, you know, I just also just think it keeps it a little bit more interesting, doesn't it, when there are new people and new voices and that we can make sure that everyone is hearing those.
EM: Yeah, definitely.
HE: Yeah, that's, I think, also was something members have come back to say to us is they'd be interested in more like specific events that are quite around different intersectionality for women. So being a carer, for example, or going through the menopause. So those people are really crying out for those more individualised experiences and events as well. So I think that's something we'd be really interested in looking at in the future. But again, we want to be member-led on this. So we want members get in contact with us and tell us what's important to them. And actually we're just about to launch a new survey. So when we first set up the network, we ran a survey partly to see like, you know, ‘we think there's a gap in the market here then that people will be interested’. But we wanted to check that the sector agreed with us. And so it was partly for that reason, but it was also to hear the voices of women working in the charity sector to know what do they want support with, you know, what are the challenges they're facing? What issues do they have on a day-to-day basis, but also as sector-wide issues? And it was a really, really insightful survey and really useful for us and sort of that's based… that's the basis of quite a lot of the events that we've done for this first year is sort of ticking off some of the things that people told us are key issues. So, things like, yeah, like confidence in progression. So that's why we ran a session on coaching. There was, you know, talking about imposter syndrome and that's, you know, a key theme that's going to be in our upcoming event with a panel of six CEOs. So, I think that these insights are really helpful for us. So, you know at now we're at the one-year mark, we want to rerun that and see has anything changed but also as we've grown as a network, there are more people that we can now listen to. So, we want to make sure that we're listening to all of them. And yeah, I think it's really important for us to keep doing this kind of activity to make sure that we are staying up to date, you know, and also, you know, I think me and Harriet again have very similar job, you know, themes and we both work in sort of health based social care charities. It's really important that we base the network on what the network needs, not what we think the network needs, so that's why these kinds of surveys are really important. And yeah, we're launching it really soon. It'll be available on our LinkedIn page and we would really encourage anyone across the sector, no matter where they work or what role they do to fill it in so that we're hearing from us as wide a range of people as possible.
EM: Great. Yeah, that sounds amazing. And so this is well, this is, I suppose, a more retrospective question now just to go back a little bit. So you spoke just before about how, you know, you want this all to be the membership to be free and the and the network to be as accessible as possible and you do all of this, you know, voluntarily. So I suppose that sounds like it was quite challenging given that everyone involved has full time jobs in a very demanding sector. So, did you have any particular challenges that you faced in this first year and you know if so, like, how did you overcome them?
HE: Hmm. OK. I can take this to start, Laura. I think for me, my challenges are very representative of what we had in the survey as well, because I've got two kids at home. I'm a parent carer to one of them too. So, my professional life is already kind of jigsawed into my personal life. So, making space for something else can feel really overwhelming. It can feel like it's just not worth the energy. It's sometimes just having that collaborative space and time and inspiring people like Laura who are just going to be like, ‘let's just go for it. Let's just do it.’ But you do need to have that kind of energy and drive just to have the confidence to go for it and there's so many barriers in the way to that, especially for women, and we saw this a lot in the survey as well around volunteering and getting involved in trustee roles, for example. And there's a really kind of underlying ethos. It feels to me anyway that those voluntary roles are what sets you apart to go to the next job. At the moment, the sector is so competitive for the higher up you go for jobs. There's a real expectation that you've had the capacity to get involved in governance and trusteeship, and I've been lucky enough to be able to do that. But to do that, you do need privilege behind you as well. And you do need space and support. And I'm very honest and when people ask me about this and say, well, largely it's because my mum helps me out with my children and she lives really close by to me, so I'm really lucky that I've got that support at the moment. But if I didn't have that, I don't think I could have done this work or been able to get involved with this network in the way that we have done. How about you, Laura?
LW: Yeah. I mean, I think I would probably identify two key challenges maybe that we faced, one being-- and I think you sort of said this yourself, Harriet-- like almost the fear of going for it. So, I, you know, I remember sort of those very initial conversations, being really excited about it as a concept and then you start planning an event and getting people involved and you're like, ‘what if no one turns up, it's going to be awful’, or, you know, making sure that this was actually something that people wanted and wanted to be involved in. So, I think there was more of that at the beginning. And I think as, actually, you know, as we've done more events and we've grown confidence in what we are offering as a network, I think that that sort of fear or anxiety about sort of what role we're playing has subsided somewhat. But then, yeah, I think I would echo Harriet's points on like capacity and just, I guess like resources, as you say, we are volunteer led, and you know it's… I don't have children but I definitely have a very busy life and it can mean that, yeah, sometimes doing things like voluntary roles do slip by the wayside. Generally they are the first thing to go, aren't they? So yeah, I think that it's just creating a network in the organic way that we have done has meant that we're able to keep it in line with our capacity and not, I guess like, overshoot and I think that's been important to make sure that you know, as we grow the network, we're not growing it too quickly, too big too quickly, so that we can keep up with demand and keep doing it in that really authentic way that we want to that actually has the heart of the reason why we started it rather than sort of pumping out events for the sake of it. So it might not necessarily, you know… capacity might be the reason it doesn't become like a 100,000-person network in the next three years, but also that's maybe a really good thing for us that we you know we can keep it, sort of, we can keep the meaning of it at the heart of it.
HE: Yeah, I think that's really good point, Laura. And there's only so much we can do as well at the moment. And it's been helpful for us to say no and it's given us that confidence to say no to the things that we can't achieve. So for example, mentorship is something that always comes up in a bit of a as a theme around things that we can achieve, but there's also other people doing that really well as well. So if we can get better at signposting to other organisations and I think that's some place we would want to be in, isn't it around facilitating other people to be able to do things?
LW: Totally. And also sort of one of the reasons why we went out and recruited a committee to join us in running the network means that we can do more things and there are fewer things that we have to say no to. But also, you know, brings in fresh ideas and brings in fresh energy and means that, you know, we're not so limited by being parents and having busy lives and all of that sort of stuff that inevitably comes with being a woman.
EM: Yeah, yeah, 100%. No, that's so interesting to hear. I was quite, yeah, intrigued about that. And like you say that balancing of the personal life and the volunteering is, yeah, often so tricky. So, finally, I think this is my final question: looking towards the next year, I suppose into the future-- do you have any particular goals for the network?
HE: We do, Emily. And so right, we've got three main goals for the year ahead. The first one is to listen and learn from the community, from our network. As Laura said, getting in the survey, it's on our LinkedIn page and we'd really love to hear from you. The second is to diversify the network, the membership across all categories that we can and really make an effort to do that so that we're not just about the numbers, but also the depth of who we're reaching and the breadth of women across the sector. So we want to really hear from different voices and different people and we want to know what they want and the third one is around keeping it accessible and so that's around trying to forge new partnerships with other organisations and other networks so that we can reach more people, but also keep these events accessible inclusive and also things like being able to pay for a sign language interpreter and things like that as well is really important for us in future and we'd love to be able to make sure that these are the most successful events they can be to everybody.
EM: Yeah. Amazing!
LW: Yeah, I think we're really excited about the future of it. You know, I feel like we're coming to the end of… we're at like the one-year mark and we're having our, you know, 1st birthday event to celebrate that. And I guess, yeah, when we started, it was really exciting like, ‘oh, we're going to try this thing’. But actually, a year in, like having learnt a lot along the way and having a set plan, you know, ‘these three things that we want to achieve going forward’, I think there's a lot of energy in the network right now, a lot of enthusiasm and actually like it's a really exciting time to be part of it and for people to be joining us and hopefully, yeah, it's just going to get better year on year.
EM: Thank you for listening to my chat with Harriet and Laura. Please like and subscribe to the Civil Society podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Look out for another episode in the coming weeks, and in the meantime, I hope you stay safe and well and do check out the Women in Charity Network’s upcoming events if you’re interested!
