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Charity Retail Association slams Mary Portas charity shop cap
The Charity Retail Association has hit out at suggestions by retail celebrity Mary Portas that the number of charity shops on the high street should be limited by tax laws.
The CRA is writing to the Prime Minister to object to the suggestion, put forward by Portas at an All Party Parliamentary Group on Town Centres meeting in mid-October, that there should be a limit on the number of charity shops which are able to claim rate relief.
The association, which represents charity shops across the country, is concerned that Portas’ view might be reflected in the High Street Review, which was launched in May and is due to report back to the PM this autumn. Portas is leading the review.
Wendy Mitchell, head of policy and public affairs at the CRA, said that charity shops do not have a negative impact on the high street. “In fact, charity shops are often occupying premises that would otherwise be empty – so any cap on the number of charity shops is likely to increase the number of empty shop-fronts,” she said.
“The High Street Review should focus on the lack of consumer confidence, competition from out-of-town developments and ways to support small business through the downturn – not place the blame unfairly on charity shops.”
The CRA also released research which found that people chose to shop in charity shops because they felt charity shops are a good place to find bargains, have quality stock, have a range of goods and because they support the charity involved.
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Kate
30 Oct 2011
Mary is wrong.
High Streets are brought alive by charity shops, not harmed. Far better than being boarded up. If a viable commercial business takes over a shop unit and works, great! But if not, what on earth is wrong with charity shops using that space?
Some people travel to streets where charity shops cluster, for a grand 'vintage' day out - Stockbridge in Edinburgh (about dozen shops), West End lane in West Hampstead (6-7 shops). There are empty shops there too - alongside delicatessens, mini-supermarkets and other local businesses.
Putting a cap on the numbers of charity shops would make no sense at all. Killing off what works doesn't bring to life businesses that don't exist.
Mr Oak
31 Oct 2011
Response to [Kate]
I'm not suggesting killing off what works.
A cap suggests it would limit further expansion, it doesnt suggest necessarily that existing shops would close.
As you say, if they work and thrive, let them continue, but let them also pay rates and appropriate taxes on their trading income. Let the profits AFTER taxes go to charity.
Then we will see the shops which are genuinely thriving, and also see those shops which may be blocking up good retail space while providing no significant benefit to the economy, and do not deserve our subsidy.
And before anyone starts saying how terrible for the poor orphans / cats / disease victims, let us not forget that there are many ways that charities can fundraise, and I see no problem with the tax authorities getting a share, in the same way as they do with the national lottery. Straight donations should perhaps be tax exempt, but that is a world away from trading income generated in return for goods and services.
Loxford
Musician
29 Oct 2011
The concept of poor is relative to the country one lives in. The poor in the UK exist in a completely different reality to the third world. Bearing this in mind, it is quite wrong to criticise the underprivileged simply because they own something.
"Plasma TVs" are not so expensive that you need a mortgage to own one, neither is a motor car - poor people own them too. You cannot dictate what someone spends their money on, neither can you know how or at what point in time they purchased it. Was it second hand? Was it bought on credit? Yes, 'the poor' usually cannot afford to pay cash!
More to the point, charity shops. Whoever you believe frequents them, the profits goes to the charity. Unlike, as you suggested, a tiny "voluntary" donation via Ebay which is likely to be a small percentage of what the seller, Ebay and Paypal earn.
I am not 'poor', I live in an affluent part of London, there are many charity shops in the area. They neither bring down the tone of the neighbourhood or spoil my shopping experience. Shopping is not what life is all about.
I have far greater concern about the multinationals, the chains etc that really do kill local shops.
There continues to be a stream of Tesco Express stores opening sometimes less than half a mile from each other. They manage to secure leases for their identical stores, easily undercutting the small retailer who does not have the distribution and supply network to compete.
Minimum wage? Yes, I know some charity workers are paid - I wondered if you'd pick up on that. I don't think it's a good thing, neither do I believe it's a point to justify the argument that charity shop workers should be paid.
If there was an end to all voluntary work and all charity workers were to be paid at least the minimum wage how could there possibly be anything but a drop in money getting through to the cause?
In my mind the humble charity shop shines in the high street as a representation of a belief in helping, giving, not another capitalist hoover sucking up the competition for the benefit of its shareholders and management by offering tempting goods on credit to many people that can barely afford them.
Help The Hospices
28 Oct 2011
Cap on number of charity shops could seriously impact hospice care
As the charity for hospice care, Help the Hospices would be concerned to see any proposal to limit the work of charity shops in the High Street Review, which is being led by Mary Portas.
Charity shops are a vital source of income for local hospices, accounting for 11% of all adult hospice income. In 2010, more than £40 million was raised across 167 hospices, directly contributing to the funding of local hospice services for more than 360,000 seriously ill people, their friends and family.
Jonathan Ellis, director of policy at Help the Hospices, the charity for hospice care, says:
"Hospices are rooted in the communities they serve, which is reflected by their presence on our local high streets. With more than 1,400 shops across the UK, local hospice shops collectively form the largest chain of charity shops in the UK.
"In these already challenging times, a cap on the number of charity shops would be a direct cap on the amount that hospices were able to raise in order to fund their vital services for people facing the end of life.
"A less favourable rate relief could also drive some charity shops out of profitability. We strongly recommend that the review engages with hospices and other charities with retail outlets in order to consider the implications of any future recommendations."
Research by the Charity Retail Association shows shoppers value the choice and value for money offered by charity shops.
Jonathan Ellis adds: "The problems on the high street are nothing to do with charity shops. Charity shops also often occupy premises which would otherwise be empty. Any restrictions for charity shops are only likely to further damage our high streets."
To view this on our website visit: http://bit.ly/s0Fac9
To comment Tweet us @HelptheHospices
Mr Oak
31 Oct 2011
Response to [Help the Hospices]
@Helpthe Hospices
Of course all or most charities collect in the name of a "good cause", of which hospice care is one. No one is against the charities collecting, but there are a lot of other means through which charities can collect that do not have a negative impact upon the economic health of our High Streets.
If they want to keep their place of the High Street, they should be prepared to pay their way, in rates and in taxes on trading profits from such retail operations. If they are not prepared to pay their way, they should be prepared to give up their premises if a business that will pay its way can make better use of them.
A response I received to one of my posts elsewhere lists some of these other ways which charities have at their disposal - if the cause is good, people will give, according to their wish and means:
"John Abrami, 29/10/2011
Mr Oak You have said nearly everything I would want to say. Please send a copy of your exc. letter to the Prime Minister. He will be bombarded by the puny, partial defense put up by the Charity Retail Association. The Charities do do excellent work. We support that. We support them - in all legitimate ways. They have their own outlets. Door-to-door collections. Lotteries. Appeals. Voluntary associations of helpers. Newsletters. Websites. Celebs in tow. The strong draw to philanthropy in people. What ordinary retail business can call on all this, or on the financial muscle the big charities have... Good work does not give them the right to do what they - or their professional commercially psyched-up fundraising directors - want. They want to play the business game. Fine. Play it honestly, fully. Pay rates, wages and tax. One thing Mr Oak left out. The Charities even have HMRC on their side. HMRC in fact recommend what amounts to a tax dodge. In their own words:"Tax relief on trading profits . Any profits that your charity makes from trading activities - selling goods and services to customers - may be taxable. However, there are some exemptions, depending on the nature of your trading activities. If your profits from trading activities aren't exempt from tax you'll need to tell HMRC Charities about them and pay any tax that's due through a tax return. ... However, if your trading activities aren't covered by tax exemption, your charity may want to consider conducting all or part of these activities through a subsidiary trading company and transferring some or all of the profits of that company back to your charity as a donation." Pardon me!? Further. How much does rates relief cost us taxpayers NOW? The 1995-6 figures are it cost Government £435 million to enable the charity shops to raise £95 million for charity. (Cf Joint Committee for the draft Charities Bill. Minutes of evidence. Mr Alambritis qns 420-440. Further, there is scope in this time of re-cycling good stuff and downturn for people to set up legitt. businesses in second-hand goods. The Charities make this very difficult. In sum. The Charity shops have become parasites on the High Street, on hard-working retailers who are backbone to the economy, on the naivete of good-hearted people and on the tax-payer. More retailers would speak up but they are afraid they will feel the backlash of naive customers who do not know what is going on."
Winnan
28 Oct 2011
Far from being over-represented in the high street I am a huge supporter of the visibility of the charity within the community. However, I think charity shops are a missed opportunity for the Charities that they represent in their current form and some imaginative extension of what they offer should be considered.
Where possible they should be a portal into the charity itself so that they genuinely become a place where the public can interact with the Charity. This could include intranet type connections, resource centres and other facilities. I am not sure what the tax implications of these would be and whether they would then become subject to additional rates and taxation, but surely this would be a better way to create more differentiation between the shops and develop the community around the charities cause not just what it has donated.
Mr Oak
27 Oct 2011
To Carl Allen,
Do you really think the only alternative of the poor is to shop at charity shops?
Charity shops are not where the poor go to shop, they are for collectors of vinyl and vintage clothing, for middle classes to go and pick up a bar of fairtrade chocolate, for bohemian students, and bargain hunters, and elderly people who like the sort of nick nacks that are sold and recycled there. If anything the prices are often quite high.
The poor buy and sell the same things (and a much better range at that) at car boot sales for a fraction of the price.
And many of the poor (well, can they really be poor when they have plasma tv's and satellite packages, etc) shop at Asda and Primark.
Charity shops are not the place to go for essential purchases. Asda is where the poor find their basics at basic prices.
Carl Allen
27 Oct 2011
Response to [Mr Oak]
Charity shops have a range of customers including the poor, middle classs and supporters of specific causes.
But the poor do frequent charity shops out of necessity.
But I suspect that not enough poor people realise the good bargains to be had from the modern day charity shop.
Carl Allen
26 Oct 2011
It remains for Portass of the Portass solution to state where she considers the poor to fit into her perception of what is a modern consumer. By poor I refer to those who have no reasonable choice but to frequent charity shops.
Until that is done, we have no way of knowing what Portass thinks is a diverse high street fit for the modern consumer and the role and place of charity and charity shops on the high street.
That said, we can but look forward to a new definition of the modern consumer that will significantly influence many a policy ... might we refer to the modern consumer as the Portass consumer in future as it sounds a bit catchy?
Mr Oak
26 Oct 2011
Loxford, in return, to address your points......
I'm not suggesting they are taking over, just that it is inappropriate for poor quality charity shops to be allowed to blight our high streets, when if they had to pay their rates and pay their staff they would have to address how they met a public need rather more effectively. A good charity shop should be able to support itself under a level playing field, or it is not serving customer needs sufficiently well.
I agree there are many typical retail shops which are owned by chains, and I would welcome seeing more independent shops, though not for any anti-capitalist agenda, as any shop needs to make a profit, for charity or otherwise. This is why charity shops shouldnt be subsidised to fill retail outlets which could be sites for new business start ups.
Equally there are poor quality retail spaces which really should be flattened and redeveloped, and should not be kept on life support by charity shops, when redevelopment could bring investment and growth to an area.
When I suggest the workers would be better off getting a wage, you will note that I suggest that charity shops should give them at least minimum wage, that way they could choose to donate any of their wages if they wish, but you dont end up with massive section of retail space not generating tax revenues for the economy, and those revenues are sorely needed to support public spending.
You ask should we pay the person shaking the collecting tins in the street too? Of course they are often paid, and often such chuggers or their organisations take a large proportion of the amount that is donated to charity, and this often features on consumer programmes. Far better to donate money direct, rather than create excuses for charities to create empires that eat up the funds that should go to the good cause.
I agree Ebay is not exclusively for recycled goods, but that doesnt change the point that it is a good route to recycle. The amount generated for charity is as much as the seller wishes, it is very easy to do charity sales where it is advertised that a percentage or all the proceeds go to a particular charity. There are significant sums that go to charity in this way.
You suggest the humble charity shop, sits in the middle serving the community, run by the community. That's fine if there is one, and its a good one. The problem is, they are not just in the middle, they are on the edge, and in many spaces in between, in fact they are everywhere, there are simply too many of them and many are largely filled with tat. On our local high street the number can vary from time to time, but it does feel like it dominates the high street when one of every say six shops is a charity shop.
Better that we lose some of the poorly performing charity shops and end up with fewer higher quality offerings.
Think of it as natural selection. If you have no selective pressures on the charity shops, they risk degenerating into something which no one wants, needs, or uses.
By contrast, if a charity shop has to pay its way by paying its staff, and paying its rates, that would be a wake up call to many many poor charity shops that they would need to get commercial.
It may end up with local shops having more competition, but they couldnt complain, as the charity shops will be paying their way.
I actually think the focus it would bring to the sector would mean that the retail charity sector would end up generating more money for good causes, not less.
We could end up with many more shops which have similar ethical principles to say the Co-op and John Lewis, which would be a good thing.
Stephen Lulsley
Independent Commentator and Consultant
26 Oct 2011
What a lot of rubbish, Ms Portas. Stick to things you know about.
Or to provide a level playing field, perhaps we could we move to similar quotas and limitations on the number of Tescos within a certain radius, or the number of fast food outlets in any given High Street.
Stolen
26 Oct 2011
Response to [Stephen Lulsley]
Was she lobbying?
Stolen
26 Oct 2011
What a mighty rant from a big oak.
And the little axe shall fell thee silent to the ground.
And having no acorns, you shall be no more.
Mr Oak
26 Oct 2011
I can understand why in their self interest the Charity Retail Association are resisting having a cap imposed, but perhaps they should accept it with good grace, as I believe many of us in the general population would rather see charity shops have the rate relief removed entirely.
I live in the relatively affluent South of the country, and even there, the talk is always of how we have FAR too many charity shops on our high streets, as a typical member of the public, I wholeheartedly agree. In a high street a few hundred yards long we must have around a third of it taken up by charity shops. Whenever a shop becomes free, a new business takes it, so there seems to be little justification at least around here for seeing charity shops as a saviour of any description.
These charity shops often only seem to survive because they have free labour from volunteers, and rate relief funded by all of us. This HAS to stop.
I have no problem with a sensible number of quality charity shops selling quality items, but there doesnt seem to be much point clogging up the high street with businesses which could not survive without being funded by the tax payer through relief.
The article says they fill shops that would otherwise be void. Well to my mind, if this leads to voids, this may be no bad thing in a recession.
Voids will help to keep shop rents down, helping existing shopkeepers who have to pay their rates. It will also help keep rents down for new businesses that could set up in these empty shops.
Also, how much does it really benefit these volunteers? How many of those working in charity shops such as Help the Aged would be better off actually earning a wage in Asda, so they dont need the help of such charities in future themselves? Often the poor are encouraged to give most by charities, whether it is via rate relief on shops paid for from their taxes, pressure from chuggers, and cynically manipulative television adverts designed to pull at the heartstrings. Life expectancy is long, and many of these people should perhaps make some money for their future. Charity shops should not be permitted to use volunteer labour, they should be required to pay the minimum wage.
And as for the argument about recycling, well these days there is ebay, and if people want to recycle their items they can sell them online, and probably get more for it. If they wish, they can still donate the proceeds to the charity of their choice. They can give items to the school fete. This would achieve the same result without blocking retail outlets on our high street with businesses that are not strong enough to make their way without charity from all of us through rate relief, and denying retail space to people who need to help us grow our economy out of recession.
Lets have a smaller number of great quality charity shops. Lets make them destinations people want to go to, where you can get a bargain on a quality second hand item, rather than depressing places full of dowdy rags and dismal dusty naff ornaments.
As Adam Smith recognised, we are a nation of shopkeepers. How foolish then, to allow one of our most valuable resources to be stifled by shops that could not hold their own in a competitive market. Remove ALL rate relief to ALL charity shops. Those that then survive will deserve their place on the high street, because they will at long last have to meet the needs of the public without surviving at its expense. We will be shopping there.
Who knows, this could spark the creation of a new social business structure to rival the Co-operative.
The Charity Retail Association should be embracing the change, do we really want the retail equivalent of British Leyland filling our high streets?
Loxford
Musician
26 Oct 2011
Response to [Mr Oak]
To address your points......
Firstly, it seems a slight overreaction to suggest that charity shops are taking over the high street but let's look at the competition.......
At the moment the high street seems to be clogged up with multinational companies (Starbucks, Costa etc.) and group owned chains (Boots, Argos etc). I would suggest that the latter's shops fronts which grace every shopping centre in the country do not add to any individual class or local aspect of a town.
Terrible that you should reduce the charity shop workers to a mere pound for pound comparison that they'd be better off working for Asda!!! There are far more noble benefits gained by working for charity.
TV ads designed to pull at the heartstrings? - Only if you have one!
There are more TV ads financed by huge multinationals.
The poor are encouraged to give most by charities? .......Huh?
Charity shops should be compelled to pay the minimum wage for their staff?
I'm sorry, you seem to have lost the concept of charity? Should we pay the person shaking the collecting tins in the street too?
Ebay not exclusively includes recycled second hand goods but there is little generated for charity.
We are not a nation of shopkeepers, instead we have become a nation of shoppers for that is what we seem to do with our spare time.
The high street is owned and dominated by the large chains, the wealthy multinationals, the banks, the building societies, the supermarkets - What few individually owned shops that we have left struggle to survive against these giants. The humble charity shop, sits in the middle serving the community, run by the community.
I have sympathy with individual small shop owners but let's be clear they are not under threat due to charity shops.
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Angela
16 Nov 2011
Maybe the local councils should consider this 'proposal' on a case by case basis - please let them make us aware of examples of high streets where a business is trying to rent premises but has been unable to do so because there are no shops available due to charity shops being there instead.
It seems in the current recession, there are enough empty shops to encourage local councils to lower rates for legitimate businesses so that independent shops can actually open and keep going, alongside charity shops. There should be a delicate balance between 'chains' and independents where possible, and I don't see why charity shops cannot be part of that mix.
In my personal experience, charity shops have become quite expensive and have begun to sell things at 'collectors' prices, so they don't really seem to be aimed at genuinely 'poor' people anyway - it is more to do with raising money for charity rather than actually giving charity to its customers by selling things cheaper than other second hand stores/websites.
[Reply]
Helen
4 Apr 2012
Response to [Angela]
I must take issue with your last paragraph. Charity shops ARE their to raise money for the charity, the fact that they give charity to their customers is merely a secondary benefit. I agree that some have set their prices too high but remember they make the prices up as they go along so customer feedback is essential.
[Reply]